Black Stories/19: Blake Lynch

Blake Lynch:
That’s the hardest part, is being really passionate and keeping that passion, but still taking constructive feedback and criticism and sometimes feedback and criticism that isn’t so constructive.

Justin James Lopez:
Hey everyone, welcome, to another episode of Amazon’s Black Stories, where we highlight the stories of Black designers, researchers, and creative minds from all around the world. I’m your host, Justin James Lopez, and today I’m joined by Director of Culture and Creative Content, Blake Lynch, and we talk about the important role that rejection and receiving critical feedback plays in improving your overall creativity. Let’s hear his story.

Thank you Blake for joining me on the show for this episode, I wanted to start learning more about what you do actually, so maybe we can start with you introducing yourself to the listeners here.

Blake Lynch:
Well, thank you for having me. It’s a great opportunity to just talk. And so what I do now, I’m the Director of Culture and Creative Content at Lippe Taylor Group, which is a earned media PR agency. And the short and sweet is I find fun moments and places and opportunities in time for our brands intersect with culture, be that small moments, like things that are happening on social, or bigger things that are happening overall that we can really impact and bring our brands to life in.

Justin James Lopez:
Dope. Dope. Dope. So when you say culture, what are we defining culture as when you’re saying your brand interacting with culture?

Blake Lynch:
So I would say culture is, it’s a very interesting thing to define, especially a term that’s used so ubiquitously now. But in terms of what I’m speaking of, really thinking about the ways that groups of people are interacting together, as loosely as we would like to define it there, and so that could be something deep as far as how you interact with your religion or something as wider of just how we interact with each other, people in our neighborhoods on a day-to-day basis. But then it also looks at some more granular things like how do fans of music or how do particular subsets within different groups respond and work together.

Justin James Lopez:
Nice. So you, as a Director of Culture and Creative Content mentioning this idea of looking through and finding these very unique opportunities for your brand, being Lippe Taylor, to interact and intersect with culture, is it creating those moments for the greater community or just creating those moments for the clients that you work with?

Blake Lynch:
For me, I like to think it’s the greater community at large, but when I talk about the work that I’m actually doing with the clients, it is focused on a few smaller groups or a few groups of people and not necessarily the community at large.

Justin James Lopez:
That’s why I kind of jumped into that. When you look at the title itself, it seems like a behemoth, when you say the director of culture. How do you even work at that scale, finding these moments where you can kind of intersect and bring all of what culture represents in all of these different communities? Because it sounds like it changes, the definition evolves from group to group, client to client, and you sit at the apex of all of that. So that sounds like something that is a pretty daunting task. How do you even jump into that space is I guess the question is rolling around in my mind.

Blake Lynch:
So one, it is definitely a daunting task to think about just where I am or where I’m responsible for, is knowing what’s happening and what a bunch of different groups are trying to do or doing or moving together, what is the trend that’s happening amongst them all? And so it is a little bit daunting in the sense of just the sheer amount of things that I have to consume or be aware of. But it’s also fun because for me personally, just finding, discovering new things, sharing new ways to communicate or tools is exciting for me. And so that’s why this role is great.

But in terms of the path here, I think it is... my background is very different. I think this path to get here is very different. If you would’ve asked me even five years ago would I think that this is necessarily the job title I would’ve had, couldn’t tell you that I would say yes, but it has been one that I think is very interesting. My background has just exposed me to learning about different cultures and working with different cultures to position products for quite some time, whether it was working with TV or music or retail, all of it has been trying to unlock the culture of the particular clients or audience base.

Justin James Lopez:
If I recall, you recently spoke at the AfroTech that just happened, right?

Blake Lynch:
Yeah, that was my first time going. It was amazing. It was in Austin, Texas last November. I mean, I spoke on a panel there very similarly about the work that I do, how brands can leverage culture to actually help launch their products. What are the ways, and again, culture is such a big word and a nebulous word that means a lot of things. And even I think everyone right now with marketing and kind of brand building understand you have to leverage culture or tap into culture, but not necessarily how to find it, identify and really mobilize it for their brand and their products, which is what I specialize in helping people do.

And so one thing that I’ve realized is no matter what industry or type of product that I’m working with, there’s this always one particular thing that stands true and that’s the culture and the reason behind the products. There’s something that people care about. There’s a reason why they’re doing them. There is really uniting things that brands can lean on and leverage to connect with them. That doesn’t matter what the product is, there’s communities there and that’s why you’ve invented your product or created your product. And so now we just need to find the best ways to speak to those people that we have created a product for.

Justin James Lopez:
It sounds like there’s a lot of storytelling there. People have these great products, but they may not always know how to communicate to their target audience, and you kind of fill that gap.

Blake Lynch:
Yeah, most definitely. And I feel in this day and age, there’s so many products, there’s so many things that are competing for your attention, but the things that really resonate with people are the stories, are brands that they still really understand them, and how you cultivate their relationship between the two of them is really important because there’s somebody always next door with the hottest, newest best, or just an alternative that may be cheaper.

Justin James Lopez:
No, I think that that’s really interesting. One question that naturally comes to my mind is when you’re working with these clients, working with this culture creation and this creative content, how do you straddle the line between creating content that speaks to specific communities without feeling like you’re almost exploiting the community culture or appropriating the culture?

Blake Lynch:
It’s not about inserting yourself into what they’re doing, but it’s about participating in what they’re doing. And so in order to participate, you first have to understand what it is and who the group is that you’re trying to work with. So I think that’s the first place. And for me, a lot of things that I work on, we tend to then lean into people that are already experts or known within a particular community that help lend some credibility to what we’re doing, but also help inform us to make sure what we’re doing isn’t shortsighted.

Justin James Lopez:
In this space naturally you find people that are going to critique that. If you do anything wrong, you say anything wrong or you may have gotten it a little bit off, it’s very easy for people to condemn in the current climate. I just wanted to hear your perspective on how you navigate that, but it sounds like you’re bringing a lot of different people into the conversation, making sure that you’re as informed as you can be at least in order to make these decisions, because you have to make the decision. You can’t just like, “You know what, I’m not going to touch it at all.” Kudos to that because there’s some things I just don’t touch.

Blake Lynch:
Yeah, and so I was that way for a little bit. I’d say early on in my career of this just isn’t my thing or I don’t understand it, but I think that’s really the power in being this kind of creative mind. It’s like, “Okay, I don’t understand this or I’m not a participant in this, so let me go read up on it. Let me get a little bit more immersed in what’s happening,” and then being able to put myself in that mindset and think through and having... I think what I found to be greatest, having questions for people that are actually in a particular audience that you’re working with. After you’ve read and done some research, now you’re able to really connecting with them, have meaningful questions and things that really help give you better clarity to the audience or the group or insights that you’re working on.

It just made me think of a really funny time for me of working with some women’s health products and they’re like, “Hey, we need to find a way in with culture to deal with X, Y, Z product every woman uses and needs.” And there was a moment for me of, “I know nothing about this other than the fact that they’re used.” And I wasn’t afraid to phone a friend and say, “Hey, look, I don’t know anything about this. I’m going to ask you some questions. They may be a little stupid, but yeah, just rock with me here and give me honest answers on how this works about this.” Man, she laughed for the first five to ten minutes of just the conversation. But for me, again, it gave more clarity to the audience that I was working on a campaign for and trying to find ways to connect with culture and to connect with just some of the insights that we have found around usage.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, that’s what’s up. Yeah, I think it also gives you that deeper level of empathy, because you spend a lot of time in different spaces that many people may or may not ever think about, or we may not ever have to think about, but you have to answer these questions to create these campaigns around these things. How much of your time is spent working on campaigns for coaches that you associate to versus having to consistently learn everyone else’s?

Blake Lynch:
So I’d say that varies and through different times in my career it’s been higher than others. Right now I tend to work on a lot of mass market products where there are moments of opportunities to speak to my culture as a millennial male, R&B lover, et cetera, not necessarily always as much to speak to those things as a African American male plus all of those other things, which is, for me, again, it’s flexing a skill and an understanding and a muscle of how do you figure this out for places where you’re not necessarily a member of this culture?

But then it also gives me I think just in this role the opportunity to bring some of those moments to life from my culture. It may not necessarily be... I don’t want to say what they’re asking for, but it may necessarily be the first thought in the brief of this is a route we can take in being able to in this space to say, “Hey, this is bubbling or trending in this area,” is really great. I think a lot of things come from out of our community, and so it’s always great to be able to bring those things up and see how they fit into play with the campaigns I work on. But I unfortunately don’t have any clients that I work on right now that are targeting specifically African American males, but still getting to bring my culture to work every day to the thinking, the campaigns. So it’s great.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, that creative thinking aspect of it consistently allows you to bleed it in, for sure. What would you say is your favorite part of the work that you do and maybe what’s the part that you don’t like as much?

Blake Lynch:
So I’d say my favorite part is selling in a client on an idea or a campaign that a few months before they were completely against or a type of technology where they’re like, “You know what? We really don’t want to do anything around that,” and just working through it, like how some brands were with TikTok at first, where they’re like, “We don’t have a voice. We shouldn’t be there. It’s just dancing.” And now we’re working on weekly, monthly TikTok campaigns, content, how this works.

And then I’d say the second piece from that is then seeing the kind of customer response to a campaign that we’ve worked so hard on or something that, an insight we use to tell a client, “Hey, we need to do this thing that they were a little averse to,” and now seeing they’re onboard and also the customers love it. I’d say that is the best kind of feeling for me and the most fulfilling piece of the work is really taking concept or idea from a small insight you may have found or even been given and taking that to a concept that’s living, a campaign that’s living in market is amazing. I’d say the least favorite part sometimes is really having to give your all with the creative ideas and concepts you’re coming up with and then go through review.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, it’s got to be really tough to deal with.

Blake Lynch:
That’s the hardest part is being really passionate and keeping that passion, but still taking constructive feedback and criticism, and sometimes feedback and criticism that isn’t so constructive. In this agency world we really work at the service of the clients. And so there’s a lot of things where sometimes they’ll just say, “That is what it is,” and it’s like, “You gave us KPIs to reach and the thing you’re asking us to do doesn’t match,” but that’s just what it is. And so you learn how to really navigate that line and that’s why I say it’s even more kind of exciting for me to actually go through and have something that they were, a verse two, than be this big moment where we all can celebrate that this campaign did amazing. And so yeah.

Justin James Lopez:
It sounds like that’s where most of the success in your space comes from, is that being able to... which I saw your background is in, or at least the earliest background you have is in comms, and then rhetoric, which is persuading and understanding how do you present information in certain ways? And I think that that’s... I actually have a background in rhetoric as well, so that’s one thing that I thought was really interesting about our connection path. You mentioned something about the reception of that constructive criticism, is what you meant, and then maybe not so constructive criticism, in your experience of doing this, especially in agency, cause I’m assuming it’s just a constant bombardment of criticism, both constructive and non, what are some of the tips that you’ve learned or some of the best practices I guess, that you’ve learned in receiving criticism in general or critique on the ideas or what are some ways... because I’m assuming you have to have thick skin there, you can’t just take everything personal, you won’t survive. So what are some of the tips that you have for getting through that?

Blake Lynch:
So I think the first thing for me is, in the feedback, is really trying to understand what it is the client wants to achieve and what it is that they’re saying is lacking. And so I think in taking that criticism or feedback, just keeping my feelings a little bit separate and keeping in mind what are they trying to achieve and understanding those reasons and rationales, because sometimes you may not get a really elaborate response on feedback of why. And so for myself, I just try to think, “Well, what are the things that I know is going on about this situation that could have impacted this feedback of how things develop?” And then I think it is a thing of being a little bit more thick-skinned. Again, not taking it as a personal attack on you, but just people are really passionate about their brands. Again, the brands have a job to do and these things have to be really specific. Thinking through it, I don’t know how to actually... if there’s a particular thing I do, I’m really trying to think through if there’s a particular thing I do to get through those moments.

Justin James Lopez:
Well, do you think that you were just... you’re naturally more thick-skinned than most other people or just not even most other people, than other people?

Blake Lynch:
No, I think my feelings definitely get hurt a lot. You just take a moment. I think that in this space it’s, “Okay, I received your feedback, I’m going to read your feedback, then I’m going to take a moment away from the work and give myself a breather and then come back to it with a fresh mental space ahead to see how I can effectuate or how I can effectively change things that you’re asking about.” And sometimes the things that... the changes are minor and sometimes they’re major changes. And even sometimes you look at the minor changes that are requesting and you’re like that, “That’s so small, why?” And those things could bother you just the same until again, you put back into perspective of what is the goal of your clients and how are they trying to go about these things.

One big thing I learned very on in my career is when, especially working in agencies, sometimes when you’re taking these things, your client isn’t the end all be all decision maker. They have a boss, they have a person, that other person has to sign off, they have to get the rest of the team’s buy-in, and so sometimes their feedback may not make so much sense for in that moment of what the deliverables were, but they’re understanding their organization and the things that they have to navigate in order to successfully have a program take off within the organization. And so that’s another piece as well. You just have to be really I think, cognizant of everyone and what they’re trying to achieve.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, there’s a ideal of information without context is almost pointless, and what you’re doing, what I’m hearing in your process, is as you start to receive that feedback, you’re constantly thinking from a thousand-foot view in all of the context that goes around what’s coming in and the feedback that you’re receiving, which I think is something that is really powerful. I haven’t mastered that I think I will say. I think that even not coming from an agency perspective, but from a more in-house corporate perspective where we have one view, you’re looking at so many different clients, so many different perspectives, which, going back to earlier in our conversation, gives you that empathy of saying, “Well, let me take a step back. Let me figure out what’s actually going on here.”

I think for a singular perspective, it’s very easy for me to get wrapped up, and I think about most of the listeners too, it’s easy for you to get wrapped up in that, “This is my baby. This is my idea.” You spent all of these hours really working hard for whatever the end goal was, and then having that shift.

Blake Lynch:
I will say I credited to this agency lifestyle because previously I was working more in-house, and I felt that way. But when you really look at just how agency life is, that is the job. You’ll learn very quickly in the first, I give it, two weeks or three weeks in agency of you’re going to get feedback and it’s going to be sometimes brutal. But I think that’s what really has honestly helped develop it. It’s a muscle, it’s a skill of sitting through and knowing and having clients, too, that you trust, that their feedback they’re giving you may be harsh or it may poke some holes or ask some serious questions, but at the end of the day, you know that they’re working to make their brands the best and you’re working to make their brands the best and that you all trust each other and have a good relationship.

I think that’s also very important as well. And even thinking through it, that is also what makes receiving not so pleasant feedback sometimes really more palatable is that relationship, the trust, the bond that you have with your client. Because there are some times where you get that feedback where you have to push on and you’re like, “That is just... No, we have to go this route.” And again, you can’t do that at every moment. And so that’s also a balancing act to learn as well, it’s managing a real relationship.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, you’re bringing up a really good point that I kind of overlooked early on when you were discussing your perspective is you uniquely being positioned because of the agency work that you’re doing and working with so many different people, having to build rapport with these folks to get that context that we’re talking about is really important. Otherwise, from a psychological perspective, your brain fills in the blanks with your own context. So if you don’t know this person, you’re automatically going to go cycle through all of the reasonings that you have in your brain of why they’re saying the thing instead of using the rapport that you’ve built to then fill in that blank naturally of like, “Okay, well maybe Blake is saying this because of this, and maybe I should take a step back and understand their perspective.”

Blake Lynch:
And another element to add to that too is you also have to understand the consumer of their product as well.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, that’s true.

Blake Lynch:
Because that’s also a very big piece of it as well. I like to think of it as I have two customers, it is the brand that I’m working with, but then it’s also the target consumer of their products that I’m working with. Because you have to sometimes, especially with large corporations, build and develop programs in a way for them to understand and palatable, that speaks to their culture, their nature, but then it also still has to translate and speak just as authentically to the customers and the consumers. So it’s a fun... I don’t know. I’m thinking about it, I’m like it sounds complicated, but it’s a fun balancing act. This is the work that I love.

And even like I said about I love talking to some of my clients, even working on what is ChatGPT and telling someone that is not a digital native, explaining what that is and how that even can impact or be utilized within their brand or just how consumers are using it in talking about their brand. It’s really fun. I think you get a lot of energy I think as well from clients when you can break things down simply enough that may not necessarily speak to their particular audience or culture and seeing it work for their brand, it’s just exciting. It’s like, “I didn’t know you could do this,” or, “I’ve heard about that thing,” and now seeing that thing be something that their brand is doing.

Justin James Lopez:
Being able to introduce it naturally and organically comes with a lot of trust, that rapport that you’re talking about. I want to take a step back for a second because I did want to go back to the feedback component and just that receiving it. You personally, how have you determined what version of feedback that you receive is constructive, even though it might be a little hurtful, and what version of feedback maybe is just... it’s not helpful at all?

Blake Lynch:
So I think in terms of just evaluating the feedback, it is a difficult task to do sometimes, but again, it’s understanding who the people are and what they’re looking for. You’ll notice, you know your friend or your person that you work with that sometimes just has a little snappy comeback or you also can see the balance of hey, they’re just having a bad day and it’s the way they wrote this and not necessarily the feedback itself. And then also really thinking back, “What are the goals that I’m tasked with? Which pieces really irrelevant to the goals that we’re looking to achieve, or is this just something small and minute they’re asking to change that is more for filling than necessarily functionality?” So I really think about it that way too sometimes. Is this a functional thing or is this a filling thing? Filling things I feel oftentimes they’re a little bit harder pills to swallow than functionality pieces, but again, that’s part of the job.

And even those things still have very, and I’ve learned as well, they still have a very important place in the feedback loop. Sometimes we talk about smaller things, about feeling because those little details are what make the difference of authenticity. Again, it’s not being personal with it. I mean if I told you just today alone, and we’re at three o’clock my time right now, I’ve probably pitched out 25 different ideas today, and maybe five of them are going to stick something. These are just from brainstorming sessions, not necessarily to client, but that is just the sheer volume of what I’m working on, dealing with that sometimes rejection or someone having more affinity to a different idea or someone else’s idea.

Justin James Lopez:
You say it in such a humble way, but there is definitely some level of skill and not even just skill, but a true talent to being able to exist in a space where you’re constantly getting the no and constantly getting the rejections. Not just like a no, but it’s like a, “No, this is horrible.” Or the harsh versions of things, which again, you’re showing up very humbly, but I think that that can brutally crush people in other spaces. And there’s also a reason why it’s not for the faint of heart and not that many people exist in... I mean, there’s certain people that exist in agency well, and there’s certain people that just kind of come in and out. There’s some people like me probably would never touch it, unless it’s my agency.

Blake Lynch:
But honestly, I think that’s what makes people that work at agencies so amazing, especially... and I’ve seen just friends and even mentors go on from agency to in-house and how they’re able to just navigate the politics of things because you’re the punching bag for so long. You are the thankless sometimes third member of the team, and that is what it is. That is the job. But I’ve just seen that it just translates differently because there is this pressure, because you have to have this tough skin, whether it’s social content or PR or experiential. I’ve just kind of seen across these verticals when we’re working as an agency, the things that you do in production, you work really quickly. You deal with the negative feedback sometimes, you deal with the strict feedback sometimes, and so I think that just makes a difference in how people move and change.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, no, I agree. I’ve seen a lot of people transition extremely well coming from an agency background and that fast-paced, fast context switching from project to project, client to client, and also all of the things that you’re mentioning now is having that ability to let things roll off and not take it too personal and say, “It is what it is.” Understanding all of that additional context and then shifting over into the different corporate spaces, cause I’ve only existed in corporate spaces, whether it was here at Amazon or different companies that I’ve worked with in the past. I’ve only existed in these corporate spaces where we have almost a one track mind depending on what group that you’re in because most of major corporations now are decentralized.

So if you land on a specific group, you’re really only working on devices, or you’re really only working on gaming, or one vertical fashion, or whatever it is, and you don’t really get to see the different spaces that you’re mentioning. So I think that there’s an extremely valuable skillset that’s developed there and would love to see more people transition over to shift the way that we think because we can be sometimes one track mind. When you think about the work that you do and everything that you’ve done so far as as getting to your current position, your current agency and the work that you’ve done, what is some advice that you would give someone wanting to maybe not necessarily be the Director of Culture and Creative Content, but someone moving into this space, whether it’s working at agency, starting your own agency and just working in this space where you’re going to be bridging the gap, if you will, between clients and their consumers?

Blake Lynch:
I would say the first thing is knowing that we all can be people that identify these moments, things and trends that are happening in culture. So often people will see things on social or see things happening and not connect the dots that it’s a bigger thing happening across other people’s social as well, or that this is a moment or opportunity to speak up on. So if I had to give this advice, I’d say speak up on that moment or that little trend or that little thing that you see happening because it could spark something big, something major. A lot of brands are looking to be first sometimes in these spaces, and in order to be first, it takes that employee to speak up and identify this small thing or thing that they think is small that they’re saying that’s happening. So I definitely say that, speak up on the small thing, the little things that you feel are important.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, like don’t overlook anything.

Blake Lynch:
Yeah, I definitely, early on in my career, had a lot of things that I just saw happening as far as social and working and not realizing, “Hey, this is the third video I’ve seen use this song,” that this is now a trending song or that this particular question and answer or meme format is something that’s going to be huge. I just thought, “Oh, this was funny. I’ll send this to a few of my friends.” And now I take it to myself, especially thinking about social content. If this is something that I want to send to my friends, let me see if this is also something that one of my brands can use or this is something that’s trending actually within culture, within social. And a lot of times I find that they are. I don’t know if that’s necessarily a skill or the algorithm serving me the trendy things, but it’s that moment and speaking up on things.

Especially some of the brands I work with now really want to be hyperactive with things that are happening. So athlete’s foot being shown on ESPN now is a moment that we all can activate on it. I thought it was a small thing or a weird thing. It’s funny that I’m sending to friends, but then it actually turns out, “Hey, I have clients that deal with foot care. Let’s send them opportunities or things.” This is a quick moment or something whether they can comment on or actually do a bigger activation around. This is something that in culture for basketball fans, it’s going on right now, it’s a big moment, people are talking about it, and so this is a simple way we can intercept. But again, if you don’t bring up these small things or moments that make you stop, you won’t be able to get to this bigger kind of moment that happens.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. There’s a few things that you mentioned there that connect to these greater concepts where you’re saying don’t be afraid to go bring these things up, but I think that there is that level of fear, because you also mentioned earlier, having just today presented close to 25 ideas and most of them probably going to not stick and get thrown out. Not everyone currently has that kind of skillset where you can be like, “I’m okay with this not being the idea.” Which also gives you that almost risk capital to say, “Yeah, I’m just going to present it and see what comes of this.”

And most people, I think that there’s a connecting factor between you being able to track those trends and you not being afraid to bring them up, because I think that there might be a gap there too. I might see something, but I’m like, “You know what? I don’t know if this is a bigger thing. I also don’t want to be embarrassed if I present it and then it gets shut down.” So I don’t know how much of that is guiding that. How much have you seen that change for your career or has it or were you always just like, “I’m going to see it, I’m going to bring it up.”

Blake Lynch:
No, for a while I was maybe comfortable bringing up certain things in smaller settings, but just as I’ve grown and developed, it is something where I’m just not afraid to have that moment of rejection of, “No, this is not going to work,” or, “No, this is a stupid thing,” or stupid question per se, because I’ve realized the value in it. The value in trying to fill the gap of knowledge that you have is amazing, but also even if you bring up something that wasn’t necessarily spot on in the trend, it’s still showing that you’re looking at what’s going on. There’s just different things I feel like, benefits of being fearless and bringing up these things that are super important and finding your voice I think is also another thing.

When I initially transitioned from doing more in-house work to agency, also transparently, a lot of the clients and brands I had worked with before were targeting my community and then stepping out into a agency and space where the brands and clients we were serving weren’t my community. And so trying to find the voice of what’s also comfortable, like to ask a dumb question in that moment too, I think is a big moment. And I saw once I was comfortable to bring those things up, how it translated just so much differently in the work that I was a part of at least, and bringing that, my own culture, my own self experiences, to the table. Like I spoke about earlier of how, I guess you said naturally it was. There was a time where it wasn’t that way and learning and seeing just the difference of speaking up.

And again, sometimes it’s more so on the team part aspect of your own team and them seeing, “He may not have the best idea every time, but he’s at least thinking through what it is that we’re working on. He’s actively trying to participate.” You practice enough, you get better at it, and that’s just kind of my journey of what it’s been is finding comfortability within myself, like you said, to speak up in spaces where it hadn’t been my history or my path or something where I could speak to with such authority as it is as my own experience as a Black man in America in marketing products that I consume on a daily, to marketing some products that I don’t work on or I don’t have familiarity with or aren’t even a product that’s for someone of my gender to use.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, that’s a unique perspective and it’s something I find really valuable. So I definitely think the listeners will too. But I wanted to, again, just thank you for joining me on the show, man. This has been really, really wonderful. You shifted the way we’ve been looking at creativity in more of a traditional design and product design sense, and I love the direction that you take when it comes to working with clients and bringing creativity to the work that you do and the work that you do for the community and the culture in general. Kudos to you, man.

Blake Lynch:
Awesome. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. It’s been I know a little time coming and I’m glad to have joined and been able to just speak about my journey and the difference of my design thinking brain.

Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, for sure. Appreciate you man.