Global Head of Brand Design, Teran Evans, joins Media Producer Justin James Lopez to discuss humility and the use of failures as a developmental resource. Let’s hear his story!
Teran Evans, a visionary creative force and strategic mastermind, has made his mark as the Global Head of Brand Design for Amazon. His remarkable journey, spanning over two decades, has been a story of innovation, inspiration, and groundbreaking achievements.
His unmatched ability to craft engaging narratives saw him spearhead Amazon’s brand evolution, culminating in the company’s repositioning as a global lifestyle brand. Teran’s signature touch elevated Amazon’s visual identity, paving the way for its continued expansion into new markets and industries. His portfolio showcases not only his artistic flair but also his dedication to pushing the boundaries of design.
Teran Evans is not only a design virtuoso, but also a true trailblazer. He is also a founding partner of BEGAT (formerly DIOSCURI), a design agency and brand consultancy whose design offerings have been featured on multiple media outlets such as MTV, Fox’s American Idol, and The Oprah Winfrey Show. He has consulted on the development of several luxury retail brands including LVMH, MCM, Theory, Calvin Klein, Saks Fifth Avenue, and Bloomingdale’s along with developing corporate brand strategy for companies like Verizon FiOS, Samsung, and American Express.
Teran Evans:
But I will say that I learned much more about myself in those failures. Most failures teach you way more than the successes ever will. The successes are important, obviously, but those failures, they hit different. They completely transform the way that you approach things.
Justin James Lopez:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Amazon’s Black Stories, where we highlight the stories of Black designers, researchers, and creative minds from all around the world. I’m your host, Justin James Lopez. And today, I’m joined by Teran Evans, where we discuss the importance of staying humble and using failures as a learning mechanism. Now let’s hear his story.
Well, thanks Teran, for joining me today on the show. This is an episode that is really interesting from a number of different perspectives, and we’ll jump into those as we get through this conversation. But I wanted to start by giving you an opportunity to just introduce yourself and what you do to the audience here.
Teran Evans:
Thank you for inviting me, Justin. I’m really excited. I’m honored to be here to get the chance to talk to folks today. I’m Teran Evans, I head up brand design at Amazon Music. And that really is just about making sure that the brand shows up globally in a consistent way for all of our customers across every single customer touchpoint. So it means I have to have a really sort of lean, mean, a multidisciplinary team of folks who help me do that day-to-day. So in a nutshell.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. No.
Teran Evans:
That’s what pays the bills.
Justin James Lopez:
Of course. I know you say it so humbly, but it’s really interesting because I think the global part is what gets me in roles like this. When you think about brand design, how we show up, like you just said, how do we show up?
But when you think of the globalization and localization of how that brand shows up, how do you work around that aspect of it? Right? From where you sit, understanding how the experience of whatever brand experience you’re creating hits someone, say in the Netherlands or some country in Africa, or some country in Asia. How do you think around that?
Teran Evans:
It’s a really good question. I think for me, first and foremost, it’s important to know, to recognize and acknowledge what you don’t know. And so what I mean by that is whereas I might have a more holistic view of what our brand is and how I think it should show up, it’s really important for me to listen to my global partners to make sure that I’m understanding all of the cultural nuances for the individual markets that they sit within.
One of the things you can’t do is treat customers in a one size fits all kind of approach when you’re thinking globally. Depending on the market, each of these customers is at a different point in the kind of the consumer journey, and you have to meet them where they are. So that means some folks may have that brand definity already baked in, and so their relationship is a bit more advanced.
Others might just be at the beginning of that journey, and perhaps they’re trying to make a decision around where they want to go. And so you have to be aware of that too. And then everything in between. So what it means is that understanding all of the complexities of who a customer is in every single individual market. And that gets hard. That’s what makes the job hard day-to-day. And I’d say that’s probably where my team focuses a lot of their efforts more often than not.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. It seems like this isn’t one of those jobs where you can just say, “Hey, hold my beer, I’ll do it.”
Teran Evans:
Right.
Justin James Lopez:
There’s definitely a lot of different moving parts. So when you think of, I want to backtrack for a second because I just kind of came in hot with that question, how did you build towards this? Before we jump into how you build towards it actually, where’s the origin point of wanting to even be in this type of space of brand design?
Teran Evans:
It’s interesting how I found myself here. And I say it was always kind of an inkling. Actually, I’m educated as an architect, so for my formative years and my education, both my bachelor’s and master’s degrees are both in architecture. But even as I was sort of studying and when I was in grad school, I had the opportunity to work for a famous Dutch architect named Rem Koolhaas.
And when I was in his office, that was really kind of probably maybe the turning point, the flash point for me because it was a really non-traditional practice. Not only were they putting buildings up, but he had these cultural anthropologists in the office and they were doing all kinds of crazy work.
They were doing work for Prada at the time, not just buildings and flagship stores, but also a lot of their branding. They were doing a lot of the runway shows for Prada. And so they were really starting to think about brands kind of from end to end. And that was the first time I really got exposed to that.
And I was like, “Huh, architects can do that?” And I think I got bitten by that bug. And it’s probably been probably the red thread that has carried through my career and got me to this point is that I’ve always been just, maybe I’m just nosy, but I’ve always been curious about why people like things.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
What makes us want one thing over another. And then once you start digging into why people like things, you start to dig into how can you influence those decisions? And that’s really at the core of what branding is. Branding in and of itself, or a brand rather in and of itself, is about those feelings that people have toward a brand, good or bad. Branding is the opportunity to influence those feelings in those decisions. And you can do that through advertising, marketing, packaging, what have you. And so my career really has now become about influencing those decisions.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. No, that’s it’s interesting. It reminds me of, I remember being back in grade school. Man, this took me way back. When I was back in grade school, I tried to get out of trouble with my principal when I got caught doing something I wasn’t supposed to be doing. And I basically just used the fainting ignorance manipulation approach. Right? Of saying, I don’t, what? Why would I even do that?
That doesn’t sound like some, why would I do that? And his response was epic. And to this day, it guided so much of my trajectory in life. He said, “Justin, if I could answer why you do the things that you do or why anyone does the things that I do, do you think I’d be a principal? No, I’d be making millions of dollars somewhere.” And honestly he just, he just gave me my suspension and then I was done.
To this day, I think about that and in roles like the one that you’re in and solving the problems that you’re solving and having to really ruminate around that question of why do people attach themselves to this thing or why is this important? Why is this not? How is this impacting them? It’s something that, it makes sense why you’re in your role. It makes sense why you get paid the money that you do.
It makes sense why you’re impacting at this level because you can solve that depth of a problem, which seems so simple. And when I think about being in this architectural design background and then meeting all of these different people that are doing all of these different things with the skillset, what was it like when you first actually took that first step and said, “Okay, I’m going to do this.” From, “I want to do this” to “I’m going to do this.” What was that experience?
Teran Evans:
There was a lot of kind of imposter syndrome, I think, at first. Because you strive to get to this point, and then when you get there, it’s like, “Well, do I have the credentials to be here? And my degree doesn’t say necessarily, I should be here. It says architecture on it. And am I in the right place and am I going to be?” It’s all those things. Right? You just kind of, you start to doubt yourself.
And you also might have outside voices creeping in because other folks are asking, “Well, why are you here? You don’t have an MBA. You don’t have the background that I do. You don’t understand consumer psychology and all this. What are you doing here?” And so I think it’s really important to sort of lean into that. It’s just, I think it comes with the territory when you’re stepping in the uncharted territory, stepping into the unknown.
But I also learned to just sort of harness and embrace the fear and to just kind of to trust my own gut and my instincts as I dove into the work. And ultimately, I knew that my success will be measured on my ability to deliver. And that my unique background actually was an asset more than a liability.
It meant that I was in a position where I could innovate because I didn’t know the rules. I hadn’t been indoctrinated traditionally, so to speak, so I could bring things to the table with my unique perspective that other folks who may have been kind of traditionally educated with this sort of background that they didn’t have.
Because they had other things in their way. So I started to look at those differences as strengths. And then you rack up the wins. When you rack up the wins, you kind of get a bit more of a pep in your step. You started to feel yourself, you know that, “All right, I’m here. I’m doing my thing.” And I’ve started to, as I’ve built my credibility, the confidence came with it.
Justin James Lopez:
Nice. This is interesting because I think that we can all relate to that. Right? Regardless of where you started or what role you’re in. I’m going to be honest, when I moved into the content creation space and the content curation space, I felt a lot of that imposter syndrome and sometimes still do depending on who’s in the room.
But when you think about what you’re mentioning, which I think is a great way to look at it, that idea of not falling into the trap of living with the results of other people’s thinking or falling into that group think of, “Well, this is what the book said, so this is the only way to do the thing.”
And walking in almost so ignorant to all of the rules that you go, “Well, I’m just going to do the thing that makes the most sense with the information in front of me.” And then it almost completely shocks people into believing you over the years when you rack up those wins.
But how do you balance the racking up the wins, being successful with avoiding what I call invincibility complex, right? Where you feel because you’ve been just succeeding and racking up the wins, you almost fall on the other side of the imposter syndrome spectrum where you go, “Well, now I just can’t fail.” Or maybe you don’t, maybe you’re like, yeah, you just kind of exist in there until you don’t. But what are your thoughts on that?
Teran Evans:
The funny thing, my grandmother used to always have a saying when I ask her stuff, and she’d just say, keep living. That keep living and you’ll learn. The thing about life is that it will humble you, so...
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
If you ever get to that point where it’s like you feel like you’re untouchable, that you’re invincible, that you just got it all figured out, something will inevitably come along that will not only challenge that, but more often than not, will dismantle that.
And so I think it’s important to yeah, celebrate the wins. And you want to have that confidence, but you’re going to be a student forever to a certain degree. You’re always learning. You’re always ingesting things as you sort of move through life and move through your professional career. And you have to be open to that. You have to keep yourself open to that.
Certainly when you’re in the space of creativity and innovation, if you think you’ve got all the answers, you aren’t going to be open to new ways of thinking and to new ways of doing things. And you won’t see it, you’ll lose those opportunities. You’re going to literally impact your ability to be creative because you weren’t looking to the world and looking to the things around you for sources of inspiration.
So for me, being humble and keeping my eyes open, it’s honestly, it’s key to my longevity. I have to do it. It’s like it’s a career necessity for me. So that piece is important. And I also think just as you grow in your career and you’re successful, that humility is important because it just, it directly impacts the people who are around you. And so much of what you’re going to learn is going to be from the people who are around you.
And if you have people around you, for instance, who are willing to challenge you, who will call you out on your stuff, put you in a better position than having a bunch of yes men around you and being in an echo chamber. Again, you don’t get challenged, you don’t grow, you don’t innovate when people around you aren’t challenging you. So for all of those reasons, it’s like, it’s important to my career as a creative to stay humble.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. No, and I mean, I hear that honestly through all of the things that I’ve seen in our interactions. But what’s interesting is you come from this space, and I’m going to be honest, because I wasn’t sure what to expect when I first reached out, when we first connected, you look at all of the things. Right? That surround. And you, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the 7/11 rule where you make these 11 assumptions in the first seven seconds.
You interact with the person based on all of the things you don’t even know. Right? All of the things that you just assume, and it’s all of these mental heuristics that you’re going through. And what I looked, I was like, okay, here’s the global head. Right? And I keeps getting stuck on the global component, is the global head of brand design. Right? And this isn’t, it’s not like you just woke up one day and that happened, right?
You’re building your career in this way and every step being better than the next, even being different than the next and making all of these huge strides going all the way back to, I’m looking at your background, I’m looking at your education, all of the things that you were mentioning. Right? It was like, well, it’s technically this. I’m like, man, you’ve done so much.
And then you show up in this really humble way where you’re just, “Hey, all of these things are great. But I’ve learned from all of these experiences, I continue to drive through passion and almost leading with through love rather than fear.” Because there is that idea that when you are such an overpowering or intimidating leader, you tend to not invite that challenge.
Right? You tend to have everyone that’s so afraid to say anything or of the repercussions of what’s going to happen, that they never give you feedback. When reviews come up, it’s all sunshine and roses, but none of that actually benefits you. And you wonder, “Well, why am I not a VP yet?”
Teran Evans:
Right.
Justin James Lopez:
Well, because no one’s giving you the critical feedback you need, and it’s the opposite. You have a very welcoming presence, and I want to call that out for the audience that haven’t met you yet. Because that’s something that I think is really important in all leaders in general and the people that should continue to grow.
How exactly do you maintain that when you continue to, like I said, you continue to win and you continue to grow and you continue to have all these accolades and each one is exponentially better than the last one. How do you maintain that? I’m really speaking for myself.
Teran Evans:
No. I think it’s a really good question. I’d say for me, part of it is that it’s just kind of innately who I am. But I think the other part is that over the span of my career, I’ve had some really great mentors. And I think conversely, I’ve also had some folks who have shown me all the things not to do.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
So...
Justin James Lopez:
Very fair.
Teran Evans:
I think back to those points, especially earlier on in my career where I had either managers or folks who just weren’t that great at their jobs. And I remember how I felt, and I remember what I needed at that moment. And even as that kind of younger person, I was like, “You know what? If I’m ever in that position, I’m going to do better. I’m going to be better.
I’m going to be all the things that I feel like I needed at this point in my career.” And so I bring that into my current sort of day-to-day. I think that humility piece is very important. As a leader, I think you have to be vulnerable to your team. I’m not the oracle. I don’t have all the answers. I’m here to listen. We’re going to get to the answer together.
When I’m thinking, we’re ideating, we’re innovating as a team. I don’t believe in hierarchy. I always try to break those down. I don’t care where the good ideas come from. I just want there to be great ideas. And so that means the most senior to the most junior person on my team feels empowered to bring all of those ideas to the table, and they don’t have to wait their turn.
That’s really, really important. Especially as a leader in an organization, you want to make sure that everybody feels heard. Because that’s what we all want at the end of the day. We want to feel acknowledged, we want to feel heard. And when your team feels that they bring their best selves to the work that they do, and as a leader that just, that bolster. And ultimately, your failure or success as a leader is really determined by how your team shows up. Because...
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
There’s only so much you can control. So when you’re supporting your team and you’re coming in as a humble leader, they’re going to inflect that back to you, your team will.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
Or give that back to you. And then you all elevate as a result. So I’ve always just tried to lead in a way, listen more than I talk. That’s more important. I’m usually probably one of the less vocal leaders in a room when I’m in a meeting and whatnot. I’ll mention my grandmother quite a bit, but she’s like, “God gave you one mouth and two ears for a reason.”
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. Yeah, my grandmother used to say that too.
Teran Evans:
So it’s like I ascribe to that. I really do. I think it’s important to listen more than you speak. And to take everything in certainly puts you in a position where you have information to make an informed decision versus just talking. I mean, in a lot of meetings where folks just, it’s like it’s talk because they feel like they need to be heard, and this is the problem. I need to make sure that I’m visible. And it’s like, no. To me it’s like, can you deliver? And that’s where I measure myself, is that ability to deliver. And that ability to deliver is directly controlled by how much I’m willing to listen.
Justin James Lopez:
That’s a powerful lesson. And it’s interesting because I think about the idea of being in those meetings and sometimes I actually have to get called out. I’m like, “Justin, what do you think about this thing?”
Teran Evans:
Yep.
Justin James Lopez:
And the reason why is because I used to be a very vocal person. When I was younger in my career, I used to just want to be what you’re describing of, I just wanted to be seen like, oh, if I don’t speak up, how would they ever know that I’m heard? And then I started to develop this mentality of, well, if your presence isn’t felt, then your absence won’t be noticed almost.
Right? But then I started to redevelop or rediscover what it meant to have a presence that’s felt, because I started to appreciate the value of silence, of your silence. Because I used to ascribe silence to ignorance. And then there’s that old saying, right? Of I’d rather be quiet and be thought to be a fool than to open my mouth and remove all doubt.
Teran Evans:
Remove all doubts.
Justin James Lopez:
So I started to think, is silence a sign of weakness? Is it a sign of strength? And sometimes silence isn’t a gateway to anything else, it’s just silence. And it’s okay to lean into that. And then now I only speak when I actually have something to contribute. Or if someone calls me out and I don’t, I’ll just say, plus one, I don’t have anything to add.
I’m not going to reiterate what they said in different words to make myself feel better. But I think that that’s really valuable, especially for the listeners and the younger listeners specifically to learn as they’re developing and trying to add value to their organizations, it’s not always about being the loudest person in the room. Actually, the more you talk, the more you start to show people just how little you know sometimes, right?
Teran Evans:
[Laughter]
Justin James Lopez:
And so...
Teran Evans:
On several occasions, it’s like you’ll get even an awkward silence in a meeting and someone just starts talking for the sake of just filling up the space and it’s not productive. It’s like you don’t always have to speak.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
Sometimes the wisest thing you can say is nothing at all.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, I totally agree. When I think about something you said though, a few minutes ago, you mentioned the idea of the successes and the failures when we were talking about the humility and just kind of staying in that space. What do those look like for you? Who are you on your worst days, and how does that help you in your greater journey of being a leader, of being just a professional and continuing to grow?
Teran Evans:
That’s great question, Justin. I would say on my worst days, I lack focus. And when I lack focus, I don’t have clarity. It doesn’t put me in a position where I’m listening because I’m just trying to problem solve. And to me that clarity is key. It’s why you’re listening so much. You’re gathering all those data points so that it influences your ability to make the best decision.
On my worst days when things are too loud for me to be able to focus, I lose that sense of clarity. And so it’s one of those things that I try to take note of in my day-to-day, because I can certainly attribute the failures that I’ve had in my career, and there have been many, to not having the clarity, to having a decision that’s reactionary, having a decision where I didn’t necessarily hear all the valuable feedback, where I then consider all of the various perspectives.
And so my superpower, the thing that has allowed my career to progress is just that, like I said, that ability to listen to way different perspectives, to kind of walk all the way around a problem, almost three-dimensionally, to understand all the sides and all the facets before I move forward. And to give myself the time to do that, to not be rushed, to not sort of be haphazard and sloppy in that process. And so I have to allow myself the time to do that.
And in my best days, I allow myself to do that. And in my worst days, I don’t. And I see the results of that in my worst days, and I try to avoid those. Sometimes it’s inevitable. Sometimes you just don’t get the time you need to make the most informed decision.
And in those moments, I find it’s just, it’s important to do the most with the time that I have. But I will say that I learned much more about myself in those failures. Those failures teach you way more than the successes ever will. The successes are important, obviously, but those failures, they hit different.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, they do.
Teran Evans:
They just, they completely transform the way that you approach things.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. I think that it goes into the concept of that complex that I was talking about before, that idea of, I remember being asked this before and responding, not that same question, but the idea of like, “Oh, do you avoid failure?” And I’m like, “No, I don’t avoid failure. I actually appreciate it.”
Because when you think about a person, I actually feel bad for the person that has never failed, a person that just went through life and just succeeds at whatever they do, because one, one of two things is true. One, they’ve either never actually challenged themselves, which is I think, a sad way to walk through to life just saying, “I’m only going to do things that I’m a hundred percent sure that I can do.”
Teran Evans:
Right.
Justin James Lopez:
“Never challenge myself to be better.” Or they’ll never actually know what they’re capable of. Right? They’ll never actually know. Maybe they don’t know that they’re not challenging themselves, but they’ll never actually know. Because if I ask a person that has always been successful, that has never experienced failure, if I say, “Hey, how are you succeeding?”
A lot of time they won’t have much depth to their answer, right? Because they’re just like, “Well, I just kept doing the thing and it kept working.” Those failures taught me how to actually be this version of myself that shows up in front of you. And I think that’s really, really valuable. And it sounds like that’s something that you lean into a lot.
Teran Evans:
Yeah. I mean, they’re transformative. You have to give yourself the permission to fail. And I think as creatives, and certainly it’s sort of those high functioning creatives who have big stakes, that failure word, that F word is scary. It’s like, “Uh-oh.”
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
“I can’t do that. What does that mean for me?” I think also, especially as coming as someone who’s one of a handful of Black people in an organization, one of a handful of insert minority with an organization, it’s like I’m almost kind of the ambassador.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
Of my people. So again, those failures, they hit different. If I can’t deliver, is the perception going to be that anyone who looks like me can’t do it either? So you have all of that on your back, and sometimes that will prevent you from taking risks, that’ll make you play it safe just because you don’t want to be the person to drop the ball when it counts the most.
But I would say your career, and honestly, if you are seeing yourself as kind of this ambassador, it’s critically important that you lean into that risk taking, because there’s no reward without risk. And ultimately your ability to deliver and innovate, you can do it. Then that invites the opportunity for more people like you to be brought into the organization.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
You have the door open, so to speak.
Justin James Lopez:
It’s a sad but true reality. I’m glad you brought that up, right? Because it’s something that we don’t think about a lot when it comes to the work that we do and the spaces that we’re in. We’re so focused on continuing to grow, and we want to be perfect in that way because in the back of our minds, you’re thinking like, “Oh, am I...” Even me being lighter skinned I’m thinking, “Well, if I mess this up, or if I open my mouth and say something absolutely ridiculous, does that mess up the college student that’s trying to develop? Or the junior employee that is up for promotion?”
Teran Evans:
Yeah.
Justin James Lopez:
Am I messing it up for them? Because they’re like, oh, well, they just crumble at this level. They just can’t hack it. Because we don’t get that luxury of raising our hand or opening our mouths and just representing me, representing Teran or just representing Justin. It’s like, oh no, you got to represent all of the people that look like you, that sound like you, that come from where you come from, even though none of them are in this room.
Teran Evans:
Right.
Justin James Lopez:
Because you got to represent them all. And that, it sucks, but it’s true. And I think that your message is really valuable of at the end of the day, man, next to all that, you still have a responsibility to yourself and all those people to still push the boundaries. Otherwise, what’s the point in getting here just to get here?
Teran Evans:
It’s so true. It’s like they could hire anyone to come in and play it safe. If you’re there and you’re one of a handful, it’s like your unique perspective, it’s the thing that sets you apart from everybody else, and you have to be willing to lean into that and use that to take the risks. And yeah, it is hard because redemption doesn’t come easy for us. We don’t get that...
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
Redemption art the way other folks do. It’s like, “Oh, they’re young. They this. They learn.”
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
You mess up, it’s like sometimes that’s it. It’s curtains.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
But you can’t shy away from that risk taking just because that’s sitting there. That’s always going to be there. There’s not a single scenario in which that isn’t going to be there. It’s just a reality. Good or bad, it’s just a reality that we live in. And so you just have to move and push ahead even with that reality in the back of your mind.
Justin James Lopez:
So moving and pushing ahead, I want to talk about this for a second. Was there ever a point in your career where you felt maybe that wasn’t the best decision moving and pushing ahead? Was there ever a point where you were like, “You know what? Maybe this isn’t for me.”
And not in the giving up sense a bit, maybe like, “Hey, maybe I, way back then, I thought this was interesting, and maybe I should have went into structural design and building buildings and maybe I should have done something different.” Was there ever a point where that was true for you or no?
Teran Evans:
Oh yeah. It happens multiple times. You come out of those days that are particularly challenging and you just kind of feel defeated and deflated and it’s like everything is piled up against you. And again, that kind of whispering your voice, “So are you the right person to be doing this?”
It creeps in, it creeps in, in sort of on a daily basis for me now, but every now and then, especially like I said, on those really tough days, it comes in and it has different points throughout my career when you’ve been in those. Our careers are kind of hills and valleys, and when you’re in those valleys, that’s when it really starts to creep in.
Did I make the right decision? Would it have been easier if I just done the architecture thing? Would folks have been more receptive to what I was saying if my degree said this thing on it? It’s all of that.
And I’ve learned to just lean into that. I think it’s just a natural part of sort of being in a leadership position is that you’re going to have these moments of self-doubt. And I would say the person who tells you, “Oh, I never have any kind of, I’ve never had those moments never creep in for me.” That’s a lie.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
They’re lying to you. And I also think it’s just, it’s not realistic. It just, it’s natural human nature for us to doubt ourselves. And so the voice will creep in. I think ultimately the challenge comes on whether or not you believe it.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
And at the point when you start to believe it, that’s when you’re in trouble. And you have to be to kind of sometimes just talk yourself off the cliff a bit. And there have been days, honestly, I keep my master’s degree hung up over my computer.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
And there have been days when I’ve just had to look up at it just to give myself this boost of confidence. I’m like, “Okay, there’s a Harvard degree on the wall.”
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
That little boost of confidence that sometimes you need when you’re just feeling, you’re dogging yourself and you’re feeling like you haven’t meet the mark. And so I do that, but even I don’t have to speak to that per se. It’s like I don’t have to go and brag about that.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
But there are times when it’s like, I need to remind myself who I am. I’m not new to this. And I do that. I just to bolster me on when I need that, and it gives me the confidence to start to show back up in the way that I need to.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. I think that for me, that shows up in a similar way. When I remember coming back after I left when I was really young, 17 went to college, never really went back home. I mean, I would visit back home, but I never went back home. You get what I’m saying? I just went into the world and started to explore the world. And I remember coming back for holiday one time and my pop saying, “Hey, remember when you were heartbroken and it felt like you wanted to just quit school?” I’m like, “Why are you bringing this up?”
Teran Evans:
[Laughter] Like, why are you reminding me of this?
Justin James Lopez:
“This is supposed to be a good moment. Why are you ruining it?” And he goes, “Well, look at you all surviving and shit.” And it was just a nice reminder for me. And on those days, because I feel those days, I have those days too. Right? But on those days, I’m reminded that I have a hundred percent success rate on my worst days. Regardless of how bad it’s gotten, I’ve still been able to navigate through it and grow through it. That’s something that, like you said, it’s hard to digest sometimes.
Teran Evans:
Yeah.
Justin James Lopez:
But it’s a really good reminder. And I’m so, so thankful for the people in my life, specifically those critical moments that I can recall because they really have helped. Years later, I’ll still think about that, that little joke that he thought was hilarious, right? But for me, it means so much. So I love this theme of overcoming and reminding yourself to be humble and leaning into your failures.
When it comes to what advice, because I feel like you’ve been dropping gems this whole episode, but when it comes to some advice that you would have for people that are struggling, maybe younger in their career, or maybe not younger in their career, maybe they’re later in their career, they’re struggling with not being sure or they’re going through a string of failures, what advice would you give them in their path and how they kind of get out of that slump?
Teran Evans:
I would say, and I’ll tell you what has worked for me, and it actually came from some valuable advice I got early on in my career from a colleague when I was working at for Rem Koolhaas’s office. And he was this guy, I think Swiss. And I remember he said to me once, we’re just like, it was six or so in the evening, we’re just kind of chatting. And he’s like, “You know what?” And he’s like, “You’re a boring designer.”
And I was like, “What?” And it caught me off guard? I’m like, “Why are you coming from me? Seriously, I thought we were cool.” He’s like, “And don’t take it the wrong way.” He’s like, “You’re not a bad designer.” He’s like, “You have such a unique perspective and background.” He’s like, “And I see it when you come to work every day at how you’re dressed.” He’s like, “You don’t break boundaries in that way.”
But he’s like, “You like to play it safe in the work that you do day-to-day.” He’s like, “And I feel like you kind of want to make sure that you’re appeasing people. You’re showing up in the way you think people should expect you to show up.” And he’s like, “And I would just,” he’s like, “Honestly...” He’s like, “Take it or leave it. Here’s the advice.”
He’s like, “I would encourage you to, in the same way that you’re willing to be boundary breaking, you have an avant-garde approach to the way that you show up in a fashion way.” He’s like, “Bring that to the design work that you do.” He’s like, “Lean into who you are, lean into your identity.”
He’s like, “That’s the thing that makes you interesting is you. That’s what people want to see.” And it’s something where first I was kind of like, “Again, why are you coming for me?” As I thought about it I’m like, “This asshole’s right.” And you have to be willing to listen, right? To that critique and that feedback. And it’s something that I’ve carried with me in the sense that the most valuable thing I can do in my career as a creative is authentically show up.
Justin James Lopez:
Damn.
Teran Evans:
To bring my full self full identity to the work that I do, because that is the thing that is ultimately going to distinguish me from the other person. We may have the same degree. We may have gone, we may have the same pedigree, we may have the same background, we may have any number of the same things, but they will not have the unique experiences that I have that are packaged up in the box that is me.
And so I have to bring all of that, which means my own unique perspective to the work that I do, and make sure it’s reflected in the work that I do. And I feel like I found when you do that, the work is better. And when folks recognize your fingerprint, your viewpoint, without you even having to put your name on it, that’s when you kind of, that’s when you know.
It’s like some of the most famous designers in the world, you’ll know that they did something without even, you just see a picture. They have a signature that is that indelible. And that’s almost the thing that I try to strive to do, is to have such a unique point of view that folks can automatically pinpoint the work that I’ve done. And that’s a tall order.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
It takes sometimes a full span of someone’s career to get to that point. But to me, that’s the sort of the promised land in the space of a creative. And so I aim for that. And in order to do that, yeah, I have to show up in my most authentic way and bring my full self to the table. And so that would be the advice that I would give to young designers who are feeling doubt and whatnot.
And maybe it’s that, don’t forget who you are, that’s your experiences, that’s where you came from. That’s everything you’ve done up to this point, leads this moment is going to, it’s going to impact your overall perspective. And that’s unique to you. There’s no one else in the world who’s had that kind of list of experiences.
So bring that to the work that you do. Don’t sit that to the side. Don’t compromise on who you are. And if you feel, have that feeling in your gut that you are, that’s your instincts telling you to course correct.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah.
Teran Evans:
It’s like if it doesn’t kind of feel right in your core, it’s like, “Eh, this ain’t it. I’m not doing it.” It’s just, this feels off to me. This just feels disingenuous. And I’m always trying to remind myself of that. And there have been times where I feel like I’ve missed that mark a bit, but it’s always the thing that I’m striving to make sure, not only am I proud of the work that I’m doing, but I feel like I’ve brought my whole self to it.
Justin James Lopez:
Damn. That’s heavy. I’m going to let the audience sit with that. I always like to end the episodes by trying to sum up all of the things. So I don’t know if I can do that on this one. I will say for this, the one thing that I’ll take away that I think was really impactful from our conversation is make sure you show up in your authentic voice and come humble or be humbled.
Teran Evans:
[Laughter] because you will be.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah, because you will be.
Teran Evans:
Exactly. Cause and effect.
Justin James Lopez:
Yeah. But thanks Teran, for joining me on this episode. This has been an amazing conversation. I just look forward to learning more on our journey and building a better friendship with you.
Teran Evans:
Thank you for having me, Justin. It’s been great.
